ep026: Money Mindset & Money Skills

Joanna Sapir

Welcome to the Business Revolution podcast where practitioners and coaches that provide services in health, wellness and education come to learn the business side of things like marketing, pricing, hiring, finances, all the things you need to streamline and organize your business, create steady and predictable income, serve your clients even more deeply, and reach your full potential as a business owner. If you’re a skilled, experienced practitioner of your craft that has or wants to have a profitable and sustainable business doing the work you love, you’re in the right place. And I’m so glad you’re here. Let’s get into this episode. 

In this episode I’m talking about money mindset and money management skills with Shaneh Woods, who is my own accountant and the money coach inside of the Leadership Cadre. Now, you may not have heard me talk about the Leadership Cadre much before because it’s a backend membership program that’s just for graduates of the profitable Practitioner Academy or my older program, the Business Revolution Academy. And in the Leadership Cadre, which you’ll hear Shaneh and I refer to it as the LC. That’s what we call it, the LC. In the LC, our members focus on marketing to fill their programs, scaling their businesses with team and systems and money management for higher profit. And that money management part is where Shana comes in. We have money coaching calls in the LC that cover everything from money mindset to bookkeeping, saving and using the profit first method which we talk about in this episode. 

So I’d love to hear what you get out of this conversation, please let me know. And if you’d like me to talk more about money and financial issues here on the podcast, let me know and you can email me directly with your with your input at joanna@joannasapir.com all right, now here’s our conversation. I am so excited to be here today with our money coach inside our program, Shaneh Woods. So Shaineh Woods is the CEO of Prosperity first, which provides fractional CFO services for ambitious, driven and heart centered entrepreneurs. What Shaneh does is super unique. She bridges the soul and science of money utilizing a unique blend of human design, Gene keys and her 28 years as an accountant and CFO. She helps business owners implement the most aligned financial tools, tactics and strategies for them so that they can make more money, have more impact and increase their business profits by four to five times or more. So welcome Shaneh, I’m so glad to be talking with you here today.

Shaneh Woods

Hello.

Joanna Sapir

Would you start by just giving a little background? I mean, I just read, you know, part of your bio 28 years as an accountant. Like you’re fully an accountant and bookkeeper, but you also talk in human design and Gene Keys. And so just give us a little background of how you came to where you are today.

Shaneh Woods

Sure. First of all, I couldn’t get a job in my field when I graduated college, which is why I’ve been in business so long. Because at 19, instead of getting hired, I bought a bookkeeping firm. So I bought myself a job. And like most people who are really good at what they do, I knew how to do the work and had no clue how to run a business. None. Right. I mean, I’m the money person. I can keep a set of books. But running a business is a completely different skill set. So for the first two years I ran a very profitable business into the ground not knowing what I didn’t know. And then I did what likely your audience has done. I either found books or found people to help guide me through my journey so that I could actually enjoy my life. Now I was the stereotypical accountant, the one that you think of with the fancy Office and the 24 gold plated name desk thingy on their. I can’t think of the name of the nameplate. Right. With the fancy suits and the conversations about how congratulations, you made money, but no real help or guidance as to how they could actually afford to pay their taxes. Right. It was just the compliance work. And I nearly killed myself working eighty hundred hour weeks. So I got to this point of the soul and science of money because I went through a deep period of depression and burnout and physical illness because of running my business in a way that was so unaligned to my very being. Two and a half years of going from nearly a million dollars in revenue back down to 35,000. So it was like I built a brand new business, but I did it in a way that was aligned. Now I get to work with amazing people like you and your clients having conversations not only about, hey, congratulations, you made money. And this is how we get to afford, you know, the tax portion and you get to have more money for yourself personally and how do we feel good about the money that we’re creating in the world? And I get to do that in way less hours than I ever worked before.

Joanna Sapir

Awesome. Well, so today we’re going to talk about. I mean, there are pieces in that story that I want to come back to and highlight. Today we’re going to talk about money mindset, money management and tools for any of you listening to get into. Right. Relationship with Your money. And what I want to start by noting from what you said, Shaneh, is that you bought this bookkeeping business and it sounds like it was a million dollar business. And you said you ran it into the ground and you said you didn’t know how to run a business. And I think that for a lot of people listening, wellness practitioners and coaches, all of you, right, a lot of times we think that the pieces we don’t have, like, oh, I don’t know how to manage money really well. I don’t know how to do business finance or whatever. We think that somebody that does have, that has, has it all together, you know what I mean? The pieces that we’re missing, we’re like, well, they have that. So they are just like totally know what they’re doing when running a business. The other example is marketing. So what’s funny is I know lots of marketers who don’t know how to run their businesses and aren’t doing well. Right? They know how to market, but they don’t how to know how to run a business. But again, we think those pieces that we struggle with most, well, the people who have that, then they know what they’re doing. But no, it’s a full picture. Running a business is a full picture. And I’m just going to use this opportunity to note something I’ve said before on the podcast that I think of a business as having five departments or this is what I teach with my clients and all of you listening. And so those five departments are fulfillment, which is what we call your services. That’s the part that you probably already feel comfortable with. And you know, it’s your services. However, if you listen to my podcast, you know that pricing and packaging is a key piece of that that may not, you may not be doing really, really well with right now. So fulfillment is one department. Marketing is a department. That’s how you attract leads. Sales is a department. That’s how you convert your leads into clients. Financial management is its own department, which is what we’re talking about today. And then admin and operations is the last one. So those are the five departments I talk about that I’m sure plenty of other people could have other frameworks for it. And that’s what I do. So we’re focusing on financial management. But just noting, here’s an expert in financial management and you still just noting you still had to learn all the other pieces, right. Of it. Because that’s not all it is. Yeah.

Shaneh Woods

Just to clarify one thing. The business that I bought was not A million dollar business. It was about 40,000 a year in profit, which is, which was great for a 19 year old. In the 90s. I grew it to a million dollar business the hard way, working those kind of hours, destroying my soul and my body. Yeah, yeah.

Joanna Sapir

What, what, what I call the freelancer mindset of just this pure, like getting all the clients that you can, trading your time for dollars. Right.

Shaneh Woods

Well, and I was doing what I’m sure you, you teach your clients not to do. I was charging hourly 45 bucks an hour, and it would just take however long it took and I’d get paid for it, which is why you had to work a hundred hours a week to make actual good money.

Joanna Sapir

Right. And then it’s just booking as many hours as you can to make more money, which is how we get into that burnout cycle.

Shaneh Woods

Yep.

Joanna Sapir

So let’s veer away, let’s veer away from that a little bit. And I want to get into feelings about money. And so those of you guys listening, I want you to know that everybody has feelings about money. And just like when we think that somebody who’s, you know, a bookkeeper, accountant, like, has all the money stuff together, it doesn’t mean they have their whole business together. A lot of times people think that we, we look at others and we think that others, like, oh, they have, they have a good relationship with money, like I’m the one that is, is off or something. But I would imagine you have some stories to tell. Shaneh, you don’t have to tell stories, but in my experience, everyone’s got issues with money. So as I was reading your bio, you know, and I was saying, you know, that you help people and so they can make more money and have more impact and increase their business profits. A lot of people freak out even at just that, like, that touches something in them that feels bad that somehow, you know, wanting to increase profit or wanting to have more money or needing even more money or making more money can feel bad to folks. And so I want to get into that and talk about feelings about money. And I’ll just say what my experience is and you. And then I want to hear what you have to say because this is actually a lot of the work that you do with our clients is it starts, you start with money mindset stuff, but I think that people who grew up and this is just very. A total generalization, but people who grew up with, let’s say, not a lot of money tend to think that, oh, people who grew up with money have a good Relationship with money. I’m, I don’t. Because I didn’t grow up with it and I’ve got all this whatever shame around that or something. Right. But the thing is, the people who grew up with money, they look at people who didn’t have money and they feel the same thing, like, oh, they value it more. Like, I hear amazing statements and no, it seems like nobody is unscathed in our system and in our society from having issues around money. So I’d love to hear what you encounter and what’s your perspective on this and how. And like I said, I know that it’s one of the first things you talk about. So tell us about that.

Shaneh Woods

Yes, everybody has mindset issues around money, society at large. There’s a religious undertone of it is better to give than to receive. So that’s one story that 90% of us hold. And most of us have put money into the relationship of either being the villain. I’m bad with money. I can’t be trusted with money. People with money are jerks. Like all the conversations people have about billionaires. Not to say that there’s not some real issues with our current system, but. Right. We don’t, we can’t naturally assume that anybody that has more money than us inherently is a bad person. Or we make it the hero. Oh, once I finally have the money, then I’ll get to be happy. Then I’ll get to do, be have whatever it is I desire. And both of those stories really create our money reality. That’s not being in right relationship with money. So money is just a tool. Money is just energy and it’s completely neutral. So if you are a good, kind, decent human being, you are going to be a more kind, decent, compassionate human being with more to give and more impact to be able to produce in the world. And if you’re a jerk, you’re going to be a bigger jerk. It’s just that simple. Now I say it’s that simple. But the truth is there’s a lot to unpackage and it’s layered. I have a great relationship with money. And when I reach my capacity to receive, to allow myself to have whatever I desire, I have to do my inner and outer work to increase my capacity to hold and have more.

Joanna Sapir

It’s interesting because, yeah, the sort of villain or hero piece, you know, I happen to be somebody who is a lifelong critic of the system of capitalism. And so it’s very easy for those of us who are critical of a capital capitalist system to then demonize that Money is the problem. And the thing is, is it’s not. Money is the problem. It’s. It’s. It’s a systemic issue. And how do I want to articulate this? The money, like you say, is neutral. The money is neutral. But furthermore, the way I look at it is very practically like, we are in this system right now, and money is. You need money to survive. You need money to survive. Like, you do nothing for yourself, to hold yourself back. It does nothing. It does not change the system to hold yourself back on receiving money. It does not change the system to. It doesn’t even change the system to be giving your money away. Like, that’s still within a capitalist paradigm of, you know, philanthropy. Like, I’m not saying anything’s wrong with that, but that’s not actually changing the system if you’re somebody like me who’s critical of the system. And furthermore, it is in this system, money does give you more choice and more power. And kind of like you say, your stance on it, Shaneh, is that if you’re a good person, the more money you have, the more good you can do. But the fact is that you can make systemic change with more power. And do you have to have money for power? No. There’s other forms of power, but money is a form of power in this system. It just. On a totally practical level, it does absolutely nothing for you to not to try to put barriers in the way to making money. It does not change the system. It doesn’t serve anyone actually to do that. Okay, so, Shaneh, where do we start? When it comes to unpacking our money issues and money mindset stuff, it’s really.

Shaneh Woods

Helpful to understand where your money mindset issues are coming from. I typically take, and this is something I do very early in the LC, I ask a series of questions to help people identify very quickly some of their money stories. And frequently we come to a crossroad where people are like, having more money is great, right? That feels good. That’s the emotional response they have to that statement. But wanting more is bad.

Joanna Sapir

Interesting.

Shaneh Woods

So now we’ve got cognitive dissidents, and we can only grow our bank accounts, our businesses, pretty much anything to the level that we believe we are worthy of. Right? It’s our capacity to hold something. Now, some of these are actual stories of self worth. Some of them are stories of, you know, deservedness. And we have to unpackage that. We have to release those shame stories. Money wants to be in right relationship with us. And for me, I like to kind of make Money, a person. Right. My money has a name, and I talk to it. For me, I like to visualize money as a stead of being the hero or the villain, as, like, the best friend, that person who’s got your back no matter what, who will. Okay. I’m a geek of the highest order. So I’m thinking Samwise Gamgee from the Lord of the Rings. Right. There was nothing that Frodo wanted that Samwise did not give every ounce of his ability and faith and loyalty to, to help Frodo achieve money. Gets to be that for you in an energetic sense. And when you start responding energetically to money, with that kind of consciousness, the practicalities of money also start, like, lining up in place. You start understanding where you’ve abdicated your responsibility to your money. This usually shows up in two ways. We. We put our head in the sand. Right? Yeah. I put money in my bank account. My bills are paid. Beyond that, I don’t need to know anything till tax time.

Joanna Sapir

Yeah. It’s not.

Shaneh Woods

It’s.

Joanna Sapir

I mean, what I see is, it’s not even, I don’t need to know anything. It’s. I don’t want to look.

Shaneh Woods

Yes. Burying your head in the sand, exactly.

Joanna Sapir

Yeah. Yeah.

Shaneh Woods

But I do think we convince ourselves that it’s not that important. Right. And that’s why I say I don’t want to know. Right. It’s not important. I don’t need to know. As long as I get it done for tax purposes, I’m fine. And you may be. You may be perfectly fine by doing that. And I guarantee you, you’re making less money and having less impact than you want by avoiding looking at your money so it shows up that way, or it shows up where you hand it over to somebody else so that you feel like a good steward of actually managing your money. But then you still never look at it. You still don’t have the conversations about what’s going on in your P and L. You’re still avoiding looking at it. And then you’re. Whomever’s advice on what you should do, completely abdicate. Like, I’m not good with money. They are. Therefore, if they tell me it’s time to hire or time to fire or to give somebody a raise, I should just trust them because they know better than me.

Joanna Sapir

Yeah. Very, very common.

Shaneh Woods

Right? Yeah.

Joanna Sapir

And I also just want to point out, because I heard this in your story, or maybe, maybe not, but I wrote it down. But maybe it wasn’t because you grew it to a million dollars, but what I see is that people do feel like if they hire a bookkeeper, for example, and that feels like, okay, I’m taking care of my money, but for the most part, and you can totally correct me if I’m wrong, but there are a lot of bookkeepers out there that simply come in, do the books, and that’s it. It’s like they might deliver the. You can Open up your QuickBooks or whatever software you’re using anytime and see it, but are not actually using it as a tool for helping you make those decisions. So you were mentioning like higher fire, whatever. But I’ve had experience with, in the long ago past with the bookkeeper who doesn’t know anything actually about using about. About tools and making decisions, looking ahead. Because really the books are just retroactive. Yep. And I think when I first started working with you, I think that was one of my complaints was like, yeah, I’ve had a bookkeeper for years and it’s just like, yeah, I get these reports, but this person is not actually advising me in any way and helping me use these tools to look ahead. So just want to note that too as well. I think some, some people may not realize the possibility here in terms of actually what we mean by getting into right relationship with your money. So I want to get into that because we’ve just talked about some of the energetics and you mentioned like giving, the sort of a dominant feeling is giving is better than receiving. One of the things I think about is how a law of energy is that giving and receiving have to be in balance and bridging that into money. To me, getting into right relationship with your money is the opposite of the head out of the sand. And it’s like just knowing. That’s all I mean by it. And you probably mean it in a much deeper way. But to me, what was life changing for me, for example, was actually seeing and understanding where my money was, how much was coming in, how much was going out and seeing it every day. Right. Is get being in relationship with it and to me, right relationship with it. And just like you said, it’s actually neutral. Right. And it’s not this like after the fact, oh wah wah or after the fact, yay. It’s I know, I know where my money is. I have my hands on it and can see it. Right. So I would love to get into talking about the tools because you have amazing tools that you help people with. But first, let me just ask you when I. I don’t think it’s a phrase you use. Maybe it is a phrase you use. But I’m the one who’s saying this thing about getting into right relationship with your money. Do you. Is. Does it mean anything different to you or more to you that you want to add to?

Shaneh Woods

Yeah. Oh, I absolutely say getting in right relationship with your money. It’s absolutely vital. So we’re in complete agreement there. I think most people feel like, like based on your. Your description of looking at your money every day are like, are going to say, I do that. I get on my phone and I check my bank balance.

Joanna Sapir

Right, right. That’s not the same.

Shaneh Woods

So we want to be more nuanced than that. I suggest my clients and your people in the LC that they set up a money date. Now, because I lean into the energetics of money, I recommend doing it on Thursday, ruled by Jupiter, the planet of manifestation and finance. And once a week, actually looking what all came in, what went out, where did it spend, and what is the net result of that? Did I make more money this week than I spent? Did I spend more money this May this week than I brought in? And just doing that is like wrapping your arms around money probably for the first time for most people. Now I’m going to completely agree with you. Most bookkeepers and even most accountants are compliance technicians.

Joanna Sapir

Right.

Shaneh Woods

Data entry clerks.

Joanna Sapir

Yeah, totally.

Shaneh Woods

They put it in. They’re not analyzing. They’re not being thoughtful, conscious and aware about the data.

Joanna Sapir

They’re not providing analysis or strategy or anything. Looking ahead.

Shaneh Woods

Nope.

Joanna Sapir

Into the future. Yeah.

Shaneh Woods

So when I work with a client, we spend our, on the first part of our call, maybe 15 minutes going and looking at the past because we do need to know what happened in the past. But then it’s, what do we want to experience going forward and what are, what does the data tell us about, how do we get there? I use a lot of tools. Of course. We need a good bookkeeping system. Now first step of a good bookkeeping system is please, please, please have your money going into a separate bank account. Your business is separate from you personally.

Joanna Sapir

I mean, so we need to repeat.

Shaneh Woods

That because say it louder for the.

Joanna Sapir

Yes, it is amazing. And so some of you listening, I know that you may have been in business for 5, 10, 15 years even, and your money is not separate. Tell us more, Shaneh. This is incredibly important. Yeah, tell us more about this now.

Shaneh Woods

For like, if you’re, if you’re taxed as a sole prop, you don’t. You’re not required to buy the tax law to do it.

Joanna Sapir

If you’re a sole Proprietor, if you’re a sole proprietor.

Shaneh Woods

If your tax is a sole prop. However, it makes it very difficult for you to parse the information, to parse out the data so that you can truly understand what your business business has achieved.

Joanna Sapir

Yes. To be in right relationship with your money by having it all mushed up, you, you can’t be, it’s all you. You can’t see what’s going on.

Shaneh Woods

You cannot see it. So even if you’re not required to buy tax law, it is just a better situation for you that your business money and your business expenses flow through your business account and then you pay yourself from your business account to your personal account and then your personal expenses come out of your personal account. It’s much cleaner you will feel when doing that. Now, there’s no judgment for those of you that aren’t there yet. You did the best you could with the information you were given by somebody and you got to where you are today. And if you’ve been in business for a year or five or ten and you’ve been running your business this way and you’re still here, congratulations. So there’s no shame or judgment in this. And if we can get you inspired to do it correctly going forward, you are going to make more money. This one thing is going to help you be more profitable because you will have more visibility to what is actually going on in your business.

Joanna Sapir

Yeah. Let me just say, I mean in the coaching I do with people and you do inside my program, Shaneh, it’s like there are simple pieces of data that we need in order to advise on strategy in growing your business, in growing your profit and. Right. And that data is not available if it’s all mushed up together like when we don’t know what is your revenue and what’s your expenses.

Shaneh Woods

Yeah.

Joanna Sapir

So, okay, so that’s a real clear one. And then you know, you were mentioned sole proprietor. But anybody who has an llc, that’s something I generally recommend for people once they’re at a certain level in their business. And then you, you do have to have a separate bank account. And I’m just going to note something, I don’t want to get too far into the weeds here, but if you’re a sole proprietor and you do have a business bank account as separate from your personal bank account and you end up starting an llc, which again is recommended for a lot of people at a particular level of business. You will have to start like business wise. You probably know about this, Shaneh, but banks, you have to have A different kind of bank account for a sole proprietorship versus an llc. So it does require a little switch. The reason I do want to mention this right now is because if you’re a sole proprietor right now and you know that you’re going to be starting an llc, just do it now and open the bank account now. Otherwise you’re going to be having to open like one as a sole prop and then close it down and start another one. I don’t know if you want to say anything more to that, but we’ve seen that from people inside our programs, you know, it happened.

Shaneh Woods

So it’s. It’s all based on. For banks, it’s all based on whether you’re using your Social Security number or your ein. Ein. Right, an ein. And you can be a sole prop with an ein. You absolutely can.

Joanna Sapir

Just for people to understand, when you open an llc, when you start an llc, you’re given an ein, which stands for employee identification number. Is that what it is?

Shaneh Woods

Yes.

Joanna Sapir

Yeah.

Shaneh Woods

And you get that even if you don’t have employees.

Joanna Sapir

Correct. Right.

Shaneh Woods

But it is your tax identification number as a business owner with the irs. So it’s. It’s your Social Security number for your business.

Joanna Sapir

Exactly. It’s like your Social Security number for your business. Okay.

Shaneh Woods

So that’s what banks care about, whether it’s an EIN or a Social Security number. And it can be a real pain to have to transfer banks. Right. To create a new bank account and move all your auto pays over and things like that. I will say that it is like my second tip would be to be an LLC right out of the gate, even if you are taxed as a sole prop.

Joanna Sapir

I agree.

Shaneh Woods

The minor protection that it gives you between your personal assets and your business, that’s what it’s for. Right. It’s a legal document.

Joanna Sapir

It is. It’s a legal thing. And so. But speaking of energetics, you know, one of the first things we do inside the profitable practitioner academy is, is create the vision for the business and the core values and purpose statement. And in the years I’ve been doing this, I don’t stop being sort of surprised and taken by the impact it has on my clients and the practitioners I work with to for the first time recognize that their business is an entity separate from them. It is. It’s fascinating. It’s so empowering. And so for all of you listening, if you are thinking of your business, is you this the, I’m going to say the energetics of start of having an LLC and understanding that no, you are an individual human, and your business is its own entity. And right now, you are the leader. You’re the CEO of the business, but it’s not you. That’s two different things. You are you, and your business is a business entity. And there is something about starting an LLC that really solidifies that. It’s like, of course we’re doing it for legal reasons. Right. And liability reasons. And yet it really solidifies that. And that’s a super empowering stance. I think, for anybody who owns a business to understand that, like, this is something I’m taking care of. It’s not. It’s not me. I am a human. This is the business.

Shaneh Woods

Well, I want you to think about that sentence you just said. It’s something I’m taking care of. One of the things that I work on with your people inside the LC is growing a business. And I know that your work does this too. That supports them, as opposed to the other way around.

Joanna Sapir

Yes.

Shaneh Woods

Right. So there’s an identity shift that happens when you do the paperwork for the llc. So instead of being, let’s say, a massage therapist. I’m a massage therapist. It’s. Oh, I am a. I am a business owner.

Joanna Sapir

Exactly. Totally right.

Shaneh Woods

And then we want to build a business that supports the individual’s life.

Joanna Sapir

Thank you. Yes. I’ve talked about this money, but it’s great to say it in different words and hear it from different people. Absolutely. That’s what this is, is you are building a business that supports you.

Shaneh Woods

Right.

Joanna Sapir

We’re leading the business to support you.

Shaneh Woods

And, of course, your clients and your like. So there’s something I’m really passionate about. So my business name is Prosperity first. And it took me, like, two years to really define what prosperity meant for me, so that it didn’t sound like something that you hear on social media all the time, like, so that it becomes just noise. And it probably took me another year to actually understand for myself and for my clients, that first actually is even more important than prosperity. Everything about how you set up your business, how you engage with your money, needs to be about you first. About building it so that it supports you, your lifestyle, your dreams, your family first. And from there, you get to have the impact you want to have.

Joanna Sapir

Yeah, that’s right.

Shaneh Woods

Right. Too often, we in women are particularly bad at this. We fill our cup partway and then pour it out onto our people, whoever that is.

Joanna Sapir

This is the give, give, give, and withhold receiving.

Shaneh Woods

Yeah, exactly. And what I would love to see more in the world is that we pour so deeply into ourselves that we give from the overflow. We’re never pouring out our cups. It’s just overflowing. And all that beautiful energy, money healing, whatever it is, flows out after.

Joanna Sapir

Yeah. I think a long time ago, I heard you say something that it was something along the lines of, like, you know, if you had tons of money, like, what would you do with it? And it was just kind of pointing out, like, we would do the most beautiful things with it. Right. It’s not like we’re talking about hoarding and, you know, it’s. You think. I want everybody listening to think about that. Like, what would you do if you had ample, abundant money? Right. And there’s so many things. And when you talk about impact, so many of us would use an abundance of money, more than we necessarily need for the things we want, to help others in different ways and to help the world in different ways and to make change in different ways.

Shaneh Woods

And let me just add one thing to that. You get to have that massive, incredible impact and have what I would call a fully funded lifestyle.

Joanna Sapir

Totally.

Shaneh Woods

Whatever lifestyle you desire.

Joanna Sapir

Totally, absolutely.

Shaneh Woods

And I just want to really state that, because that is a place where people get into their minds. Yeah, I want to make all the money and have all the impact. But again, I’m not a good person or money can make you a bad person. So if I keep and live what somebody might consider a lavish or luxurious lifestyle that I’m taking away from others. No, no, no. Let’s talk about sovereign profits. That’s what I call this. When you are living whatever lifestyle you desire, you have funded, fully funded, your retirement to whatever level feels good and right to you, your debts are paid off, or you’re paying them off in a way that feels beautiful. Any investments you’ve made or made, and then you still have money that you get to pour into the world, those are sovereign profits. And how beautiful would that be? Stu McLaren. I don’t know if you know who he is. Sure, he spoke once at a conference, and he took the tithing model. Most of us have grown up in some environment where we’ve at least heard about tithing. 10% of whatever you bring in. And he says, what if you made so much money that you could live whatever lifestyle you wanted on the 10% and do good in the world with the other 90?

Joanna Sapir

Yeah. So I want to get back to the tools, because the thing is, like, you are actually an accountant. You’re not just a money coach. There are people out there that call themselves money coaches. You are Actually an accountant and you really do help with specific tools for managing money. And I want to talk more about that because for one, you’ve helped me tremendously. But also something you said earlier was, oh, some people think that they are seeing their money every day. Right. Just because they can open their phone and look at the account. But we’re talking about much deeper than that. So let’s, let’s talk about what some of those tools are and like what you help people with in the LC, like how to, again, just the getting into Right. Relationship with our money, seeing where it is in order to make the right financial decisions for us.

Shaneh Woods

Yep. Well, so my favorite tool is Profit First. So Profit first, you’ve probably spoken about it on other podcasts.

Joanna Sapir

I have not, no. So we’ll need to share what it is.

Shaneh Woods

So Profit first is a book written by Mike Michalowicz and depending on what industry you’re in, there are. I forget the name of them. There’s side books to go along with it. So Profit first is the book. But then there’s Profit first for Real estate, Profit first for wellness entrepreneurs. My favorite variation of the book is called Profit first for Minority Business Enterprises. So it has all of the same great information as the original book, but told with a lot more heart. And I find that my clients, which tend to also be your audience, just appreciate it more the way it’s shared. So I would highly recommend that book. Now. The idea of reading a book about money can make most people go, I’ll read that before going to bed because it’s going to put me right to sleep. You only have to read the first five chapters. The information is fully front loaded and you don’t have to read the rest if you don’t want to. That’s for advance. Just the first five chapters and start implementing. Now, Profit first is basically the envelope system for businesses. Great Aunt Edna probably did this right. Paycheck would come in, I’ve got this much for food, this much for rent.

Joanna Sapir

This much for whatever the envelopes system being. I mean, honestly, I had never heard of it before this book. So I’m going to lay it out for people. The envelope system being money comes into the household and Aunt Edna, as you say, takes that whole chunk and she says, I’m putting this much in the envelope for groceries, I’m putting this much in the envelope for the kids clothing, I’m putting this much in the envelope for rent. Right. Like putting aside the pieces needed.

Shaneh Woods

Yep. So when we’re talking Profit first, it’s in the name. The first thing we do is set aside a small portion for profit. Most businesses experience profit is just a number on a tax statement. And I mean, I want you to think if you’ve been in business and you’ve had your first tax year, you likely your first profitable tax year, I should say, you’ve gone to the tax preparer and they said, congratulations, you made $10,000. Now you owe three. And you’re like, where’s my $10,000? I don’t have it. Where’s free? Right.

Joanna Sapir

Yeah.

Shaneh Woods

Well, profit first is like, let’s put aside the profit first. We’re going to take that right off the top. Then we’re going to make sure that you, as your employees or your businesses most important valuable employee, we’re going to set aside the owner’s pay next because you deserve to get paid by your business. And I have to tell you, years and years and years of doing this, the majority of business owners come to me. They are either not taking any money out of their business or they’re taking a fraction of what they feel that they should be compensated for. But it’s all they can afford. So it starts creating some resentment to their business. So this is really important.

Joanna Sapir

Yeah. The most common thing I see is people think that their pay is just whatever’s left at the end.

Shaneh Woods

Yeah. Which is usually nothing.

Joanna Sapir

Yes. Or often nothing. Or it might happen to be this. And it’s completely unpredictable. And so we’re talking here about, just to recap the first bit you’re taking out. And so just to clarify for folks, this is a based on a percentage. So one of the tools that you, you help clients, your clients with and my clients with is determining the percentage. What percentage are we pulling out? So this is every chunk of money that comes into your business. You’re, you’re breaking it down by percentage. And the first bit goes into the profit envelope, right? Yep. Next, the owner pay. It’s based on percentage. Right. So boom, now we’ve got those. Okay, keep going.

Shaneh Woods

Yeah. Then we set aside for taxes.

Joanna Sapir

Yes.

Shaneh Woods

Right. Not your money. We don’t want to pre spend it on other things we don’t want to have to like, oh my God, how am I going to pay my taxes this year? So we set aside for taxes. And then in a, in the simplified version, what’s left is what we call your opex, your operating expenses. And this is actually what you truly have to spend on your business things. Coaching, office supplies, dues and subscriptions, rent for your office. If you have A physical location. Right. That’s your opex. And if you’re like, when you start doing this, if you see that, wow, my opex, if I use these percentages is not enough, then that tells you. That gives you a data point. Yes, this is a completely neutral data point. There’s no judgment behind it. It’s like, oh, now I know. So what do I need to change in order to be able to set aside for profit myself taxes, and still have all the things I want for my business?

Joanna Sapir

It just provides so much more clarity. Clarity. I mean, you are seeing what’s going on. And so I’ll just note that in my first business, it started making more and more and more money. I did not have these tools yet. This is over 10 years ago. This is probably 15 years ago or so. And I would do the piece that I’d just look at the bank account and I’d be like, wow, there’s $40,000. Okay. And I would just start buying things for the gym. I’d buy equipment and invest in this. I mean, I had not a clue. And there was no way to have a clue because there was no financial management system to see this. Yeah, right. And so this gives you this total clarity, as you say, you know, just really being able to see, ah, this is how much there is for operating expenses. Right. I’ve got my profit put away, my taxes are put away, et cetera. So.

Shaneh Woods

Yeah.

Joanna Sapir

What else? You were going to say something else.

Shaneh Woods

Well, so on top of the clarity, it also helps you build reserves.

Joanna Sapir

Yes.

Shaneh Woods

So let’s say, for example, after working with somebody like me to analyze your books to see what percentages you should be taking and setting aside for your pay, let’s say that comes to 60% of your income, somebody like me is going to say, okay, we’re going to set aside 60%, but you’re only going to take 50%. So that 10% grows a balance. Right. It keeps adding to this. And these are separate bank accounts, let’s be clear. This envelope system are actual separate bank accounts. So it grows a balance that way, when you have a bad month, which we all have. Right. There’s seasonality to every business. You have a bad month, you can still get paid what you’re basically your salary, your set amount that you should be receiving every month, regardless of what’s going on in your business. Exactly.

Joanna Sapir

Yes. Everybody I is not what’s left over.

Shaneh Woods

Yeah, no, it’s not about what’s left over.

Joanna Sapir

Hey, you give yourself consistent pay. That’s.

Shaneh Woods

And how like Just thinking about that right now. Think about it. What would it feel like to know you are receiving a certain amount every single month without any hiccups? I’ll bet you you feel a lightness in your body, like your shoulders. Oh, that feels good. Yeah. Let’s figure out how to make that happen. Most business owners don’t experience that. And I’m talking business owners that have are making $1 million aren’t experiencing them. So it’s as simple as this concept is, as it’s been around for decades in some form. Most businesses are not managing their money in this way. There can be a lot of pushback if you have a bookkeeper or an accountant already about the extra work it creates because you have multiple bank accounts, it is not extra work. Don’t let them fool you.

Joanna Sapir

Yeah, I find it very simple, to be honest.

Shaneh Woods

Super simple. We give the LC a spreadsheet so that they can even. They don’t even have to use their calculator. They just have to put in how much money they received and it just does it all for them.

Joanna Sapir

Totally.

Shaneh Woods

There’s even banks now that you can set up the auto rules and it will sweep it for you. You don’t even have to think about it.

Joanna Sapir

Oh, wow. Amazing. So these are some of the tools you have. Just want to note that like, this is you doing it. This isn’t something. So your books, this is independent of your books. This doesn’t have to do with your bookkeeping. So you may have a bookkeeper preparing your books, but you are doing these allocations yourself. The envelope method. Right. And you’re looking at that and it’s giving you that vision. And then on top of that, I mean, there are next steps that I just want to know for folks that are with us in the leadership cadre, the LC that we’ve been referring to, you know, you’re there to help give feedback on some of the decision making and where people are at. But the number one step here is having that clarity and being able to answer simple questions like, right, what’s the average gross revenue coming in for the last six months? Or what are the average expenses going out? Really, really simple stuff which, which, yes, you can get from your books. You need to be looking at them and knowing them. But those are going to be data points to make decisions about how you spend money, how you save what you want, how you reach whatever your financial goals are for the business and for yourself personally. We need to be able to see all that. And that’s what we’ve Been talking about is getting into Right. Relationship with your money and both the energetics and tools for doing that. One of the last things I want to talk about, though, Shaneh, is this idea of that money date.

Shaneh Woods

Mm.

Joanna Sapir

And what people might want to be looking at on this. So we’ve just shared tools that our people have to do that. One of the things you said earlier was like, you know, review the week. And I just want to encourage people to pan out. That for whatever reason, I have this reaction to that, like, week by week or month by month thing. To me, it’s like, you got to look at it all. There may have been a week, but that’s within a month and within a quarter and within a year. And even that year can be compared to the previous years. So to me, looking. Looking at all of that, right? Like, one week doesn’t say much, but we’re looking at it in the, like nesting dolls is what I’m picturing right within. Within the whole picture. What else are people looking. What else are people doing on a money date?

Shaneh Woods

So first of all, I completely agree with you. We should absolutely pan out. And if all you can do is look at one week, that is better than 90% of business owners. Okay, great point. We gotta start someplace. Honestly. If you give yourself 20 minutes a week, if you gave yourself 20 minutes a week to input any data into, hopefully you’re using an actual accounting software like QuickBooks Online or a spreadsheet that you can then do your allocations. If we’re talking about profit for something. Right. Input your data. That way you’re actually looking at it. You’ll find where, oh, gosh, the bank double dipped and charged me twice. Or some chart. Like, you’ll find those kind of things that gives you some agency over your money so that it’s not being found six months too late from being able to put a claim in on it. But I’d also look at, like, who owes me money? Have I reached out to them? Who would I like to be in partnership with? Like, is there a referral partner? Like, your money date is not just about tracking the data and looking at the data. It’s also how do I grow my money?

Joanna Sapir

Yeah, well, we teach inside the LC on my side of things. I teach, I don’t call them CE days, but CEO days. But they are like CEO days or leadership days. So really we’re talking about a bigger picture of looking at where the business is. So I’m just gonna. I’m just gonna say, you know, we talked about those Five departments I talked about. Excuse me, the five departments before. So you can build the financial piece. You’re looking at all those departments if you want to. But just to note, I want to say what. Echo what you said, Shaneh, which is even just 20 minutes a week, just looking at the money.

Shaneh Woods

Right.

Joanna Sapir

And you might have a weekly review that includes a little bit more and looking at other aspects of your business. Marketing is how many leads are coming in. Sales is how many leads are converting to clients. Right. These pieces like that.

Shaneh Woods

What are the relationships I want to build?

Joanna Sapir

Yes. And so. And so there can be short dates on a weekly basis, but then I really like monthly and quarterly reviews as well, so that those kind of get a little bit more and more in depth. And quarter by quarter, what we do is we have. We do annual strategic planning. So quarter by quarter, we’re reviewing our annual strategic planning. Where is everything going according to plan? Where is it not? We make adjustments, looking ahead for that. Yep. So money date fits right in there.

Shaneh Woods

Exactly. And I like you, I have time every week on my schedule for CEO time, running my business, making the strategic and tactical decisions that need to be made, reviewing any information, regardless of what department it’s in. But I always take special time for my money. Right. I, more than any part of my business, I want to be in relationship. I use that word and I emphasize it very strongly with my money. So it gets special attention from me. And the more attention I bring to my money, the more money flows my direction. And it will flow through things like my marketing, my sales, my aspirations.

Joanna Sapir

Yeah, yeah.

Shaneh Woods

And I will say if I have to add one more tool that it. That. That really straddles the line of the soul and the science of money. And you and I have talked about this a bunch. You’ve got to celebrate your wins. You’ve got to celebrate your wins. Most business owners are just, you know, they. They did the thing and it’s like, check, I did it. And they move on to creating or doing the next thing, and they don’t give it any special attention other than. Yep, that happened. Money is energy. Money is attracted to that desire and that joy around it. So we’ve got to take that time. And you can do this on your money date. Now I celebrate every time I get the alert that I got money. That’s me. But if you just take some time on your money date and like, I did that. I really did that. I put in the work, took the effort, made that happen, go me. And I mean, it sounds really silly, but There is so much practical results that follow those types of celebrations. And the more you see that there is to celebrate and the more evidence you collect that you are the business owner making these aligned decisions and that you have a business that can support you, not you support the business. Let’s, you know, say that louder for people in the back. The more evidence comes your way, which comes to you in the form of money.

Joanna Sapir

It’s one of the reasons I just was on a client coaching call with a group yesterday and these are folks, it was a couple people who are right at the point where they’re learning the sales process that I teach. And one of them had already enrolled two clients in their program, which is huge milestone, big celebrations, right? And the first thing I said was, are you using the sales tracker? And it’s what you’re talking about. So our sales tracker is a spreadsheet where you are actually tracking the sales and it’s so important for data. I was kind of pointing out to them, I’m like, you got to use this. Here’s how it works, right? It gives us the data. But what you’re talking about, that celebrating thing, it is this opportunity. It’s like it’s so important to do that, to say, yeah, I just made that sale. And of course it’s really fun when people start creating programs and enrolling people in their programs because the sales numbers are so much bigger and higher. And you know, you’ve just enrolled a client for three months or six months, not a session. It’s just big, big stuff to celebrate. So I’m right there with you. And you’ve taught me a lot about celebrating. Even, even the littlest bits. I mean, one of your things is like, you know, finding money on the ground. You celebrate it. Like I do.

Shaneh Woods

My every little looks at me like I’m nuts, but I do.

Joanna Sapir

I have totally taken that to heart. And for anybody listening, I mean, Shaneh, you know, I text you every time.

Shaneh Woods

I’m like, one of my favorite sayings is money loves joy, right? And that celebration is that sitting in that gratitude, that joy of receiving, whatever it is. But the next step is joy shared is joy amplified, right? So when you share it with me, you’re. You’re experiencing joy. I’m experiencing joy with you. And money’s going, they love me. I’m going to go more in that direction. I know that sounds very woo. But I’ve got, I quantify data for fun. I have the data to back it up when I get busy. And I’m, you Know, I stopped doing my using my own tools and I stop celebrating. My money slows down every time.

Joanna Sapir

Interesting. Yeah. So you can see it. You can see it. Cool. Shaneh. What? So, of course, you are our money coach and inside the LC, but for anyone who’s not already, you know, in my programs and doesn’t have access to you, do you have something to offer people listening?

Shaneh Woods

Well, first of all, please come to my website, ProsperityFirst.com it talks about all my. All the different ways you can work with me, follow me on social media. I give out wonderful content there that you can take and use.

Joanna Sapir

We’ll put all the links and show notes.

Shaneh Woods

Yep. For. For this audience, what I would recommend is like just having a conversation with me. We can talk about your money, about your current bookkeeping, and I can point you in the right direction of like, what is your next step? Is it possibly outsourcing and getting in right relationship with your money by having somebody take it over for you and then have those money conversations with you, not just provide you a financial statement that you don’t read? Is it show me how to do this so that I can maintain it myself. But can you get me caught up first? A lot of people are like, yes, they’re in after they hear this conversation. They’re like, yes, I want to do it, but I need to clean up my books first before I can have the thing. Yes. And you don’t need to be the one cleaning it up, because you likely won’t. Not only do you not necessarily know all the ways and things that need to be done that could make it happen quickly, it’ll feel like a massive weight and a burden. So then you keep burying your head in the sand. And I don’t want that for anybody. So now is a great time to have the conversation to choose to get into right relationship with your money to get it cleaned up. And by the way, you do not have to clean it before I clean it. You’re talking about books.

Joanna Sapir

You’re specifically talking about books cleanup, because I don’t think I said that. Yes. So we’re talking about actually cleaning up your, you know, whether it’s QuickBooks or whatever accounting software or whatever you have where.

Shaneh Woods

Whatever you have. Let’sLet’s get your book something that she. Good data do.

Joanna Sapir

Yeah. Yeah. Great way to kind of just like kickstart a better relationship with money and getting into a right relationship with your money. Fabulous. So that’s one of the things you offer. And so we will put whatever links you give us into the show notes and thank you so much for being here Shaneh, and as always for helping our clients in the LC with their money mindset and their profit.

Shaneh Woods

Well, it has been a pleasure all the years that we’ve worked together and that I have been able to support your clients. You attract amazing people so I am sure that there are even more amazing people in this audience that are ready for your magic and I can’t wait to see them once they go through your program and join the llc. That’s the vision I’m holding.

Joanna Sapir

Thank you. Shaneh if you want higher income in your practice without overworking or burning out, I invite you to check out the Profitable Practitioner Academy. This is my 12 month coaching and training program for innovation creative wellness practitioners. If you’re busy in your business yet still not making enough income for savings or future investments, if the back end of your business feels disorganized and messy and you want cleaned up organized systems to run it, or if you’re stuck in the day to day of working with clients and don’t have the time or energy or structures for really leading your business to the level you know you can be at, the Profitable Practitioner Academy is for you. Inside the academy, you’ll learn how to bank $5,000 days instead of $500 days. You’ll work exclusively with committed clients you love and help them get better results by enrolling them in programs or treatment plans. You’ll use the Profitable Pricing Calculator to charge the right prices. You’ll eliminate your resistance to selling with the predictable sales system. You’ll no longer have cancellations and no shows, and your business will be streaming, streamlined and organized so that it’s finally running smoothly and sustainably with less time and effort. You’ll finally have a business that actually provides for you and make that big vision you have for your business and life a reality. Go to joannasapier.com PPA for more info or click on the link in Show Notes.